Empfaenger : /comp/sys/atari/8bit, /comp/sys/cbm, /alt/folklore/computers Absender : guertinp*IRO.UMontreal.CA (Paul Guertin) Betreff : Re: Why did Commodore beat Atari in the 8-bit market? Datum : Fr 02.12.94, 18:13 (erhalten: 10.12.94) Groesse : 815 Bytes -------------------------------------- In article <3biodc$qbb*news.iastate.edu> rhawkins*iastate.edu () writes: > >Apple II, II+, and IIe, 1Mhz 6502 1mhz 1.023 MHz actually (North American versions -- I believe Eurapples (as they were called) were a little slower, but I don't have my Reference manual with me). Apple //c: 65C02 1 MHz (probably 1.023 too) Apple //c+: 65C02 4 MHz (short-lived, looked like a //c with 3.5" drive) Early //es had a plain old 6502 When the //c came out, Apple offered an "enhancement chip set": 4 chips that replaced chips in your old //e to make it more //c-compatible. The chips were: - 65C02 (replaced the 6502) - Video Rom (added semi-graphics characters known as (puke) MouseText - 2 ROM chips (added some functions to the System Monitor and Basic). Paul Guertin guertinp*iro.umontreal.ca Empfaenger : /comp/sys/atari/8bit Absender : yhavinga*cs.utwente.nl (Yeb Havinga) Betreff : Re: star raiders Datum : Fr 09.12.94, 19:38 (erhalten: 10.12.94) Groesse : 752 Bytes -------------------------------------- Talking about Star Raiders, it was the game that had me totally stunned for about 4 years. I still have a fixation on 3d star demos. Maybe, just as a dedication to the programmers of star raiders in 1979, a real second version could be done. Overall game play should not be changed. We don't need extensive maps etc. Just different algorithms for smooth star scrolls etc. Focussing on what can be done on the atari. A tribute to the designers of the XL and star raiders. If anyone is interested, I still have a nice star scroll which uses vector addition (should be used in a demo which was never published) and is able to produce 127 stars/frame. No rotation though. Come on, some of us must have some spare time left... Yeb Empfaenger : /comp/sys/atari/8bit, /comp/sys/cbm, /alt/folklore/computers Absender : heller*akh104.rh.psu.edu (Andrew K. Heller) Betreff : Re: Why did Commodore beat Atari in the 8-bit market? Datum : Fr 09.12.94, 19:58 (erhalten: 10.12.94) Groesse : 1372 Bytes -------------------------------------- Glenn M. Saunders (krishna*max.tiac.net) wrote: : Jeff M Lodoen (jlodoen*shell.portal.com) wrote: : : True, but I was quoting. If the cart says "Super Game" (and all of : : those I have use red lettering on the end labels) it has a POKEY. : : Hat Trick, Impossible Mission and others as well. AFAIK, of course. : They wasted a shitload of money doing it that way. They could have : packaged a POKEY inbetween cart with all new 7800s manufactured and : offered a "sound upgrade" inbetween cart for the old c) 1984 machines. : Then they would have been able to take advantage of Pokey in ALL the : Tramiel-era 7800 games. Well.. not many games used the pokey chip... and now you are asking them to include 1 in every 7800 system...whether it needs it or not.. THEY SHOULD HAVE PUT THE DARN CHIP ON THE BOARD! But, then again you nor I worked for them.. and if we had, our engineering ideas probably would have been scrapped. -- Empfaenger : /comp/sys/atari/8bit, /comp/sys/cbm, /alt/folklore/computers Absender : BRYEDEWAARD*news.delphi.com (BRYEDEWAARD*DELPHI.COM) Betreff : Re: Why did Commodore beat Atari in the 8-bit market? Datum : Sa 03.12.94, 03:23 (erhalten: 10.12.94) Groesse : 1106 Bytes -------------------------------------- Rick_Michael_Cortese*cup.portal.com writes: >Just a couple of notes: The clock speed was different between the >C64 & Atari, but because the Atari ANTIC chip is active about 1/3 of >the time processing speed is about equal. You can disable the display >on an Atari to take advantage of the faster clock, but for that kind >of number crunching you'd be better off with just about any other computer. Actually, this depends on the graphics mode you are in. Commodore's book on programming the 64 makes clear that turning off the screen speeds up that machine too. >As far as basics go, Atari Basic was/is one of my favorites. The OS on >the Atari had everything built in Ädifferent screen modes, I/O to any >device, floating point math, ...Ü This left the 8k of Basic's ROM to handle >a lot of nice features. There were a number of what I consider errors in >judgement, for instance handling all numbers as floating point, but I still >think it's one of the best available for learning programing. What Atari BASIC doesn't have BASIC XE does. It's a LOT faster. >Rick -Bry Empfaenger : /comp/sys/atari/8bit Absender : luedtke*uke.uni-hamburg.de Betreff : Re: Why did Commodore beat Atari in the 8-bit market? Datum : Fr 09.12.94, 19:31 (erhalten: 10.12.94) Groesse : 294 Bytes -------------------------------------- >From what i have heard, PAL 800's never had a CTIA. GTIA was placed in PAL >machines to test it out then it went to NTSC. > > * Wave Rider 1.0 ÄNRÜ * As far as i know the CTIA also laks of the Modes 9,10 and 11. So the GTIA wasn't only build to detect NTSC or PAL. Bye, Matthias Empfaenger : /comp/sys/atari/8bit, /comp/sys/cbm, /alt/folklore/computers Absender : BRYEDEWAARD*news.delphi.com (BRYEDEWAARD*DELPHI.COM) Betreff : Re: Why did Commodore beat Atari in the 8-bit market? Datum : Sa 03.12.94, 03:26 (erhalten: 10.12.94) Groesse : 519 Bytes -------------------------------------- pburgess*netcom.com (Phillip Burgess) writes: >The 800's I've been inside used the Rockwell 6502. I vaguely remember a >couple of articles on undocumented opcodes available with the 6502 variants >used in some later model machines (e.g. 6502c (sic)). All ran at 1.79 MHz, >but something about the video hardware tied up about 20% of the CPU time >(it was possible to disble video out to get things running a little faster). Atari originally used the Signetics 6502, but switched to Rockwell. -Bry Empfaenger : /comp/sys/atari/8bit, /comp/sys/cbm, /alt/folklore/computers Antwort in : /alt/folklore/computers Absender : heller*akh104.rh.psu.edu (Andrew K. Heller) Betreff : Re: Why did Commodore beat Atari in the 8-bit market? Datum : Fr 09.12.94, 20:04 (erhalten: 10.12.94) Groesse : 1406 Bytes -------------------------------------- Mark Rathwell (mrathwel*uoguelph.ca) wrote: : : The 7800 definitely did use the same sound chip. The only major : : differences between the 26 and the 78 is that the 7800 has the MARIA : : graphics chip and more memmory. : Andrew, the Maria chip accounts for a NUMBER of differences: : - The 7800 has higher resolution and more graphics modes : - The 7800 has a larger pallette : - The 7800 has superior sprite handling capability : - The 7800 has superior scrolling abilitiy : : In addition to that: : - The 7800 can have larger memory cartridges : - The 7800 has a two button joystick : The 7800 is a MUCH more powerful machine than the 2600. : >> Mark << Thanks for repeating what I said...only in detail. =) I never said it wasn't more powerful. Yeah..the 7800 has a NEW ENGINE... but the architecture of the beast is the same. A Pinto is a Pinto even with a turbo engine installed.... however, I would much rather have that engine. -- Carts: 2600 103 5200 20 7800 20 (MINT) Lynx 5 Systems: 2600A 2 2600JR 1 Sears SVA2 1 5200 2 7800 2 Lynx 1 800 2 1200XL 1 600XL 1 800XL 7, 130XE 1 always lookin' for more. Oh.. and 1 Vectrex with 20 carts, including light pen. ELO listenin', Dr. Pepper, Kool-aid, and Red Devil drinkin', Atari lovin', cags-faq writin', fuji worshiping Ghoull-Man. heller*akh104.rh.psu.edu Empfaenger : /comp/sys/atari/8bit, /comp/sys/cbm Absender : BRYEDEWAARD*news.delphi.com (BRYEDEWAARD*DELPHI.COM) Betreff : Re: Why did Commodore beat Atari in the 8-bit market? Datum : Sa 03.12.94, 03:38 (erhalten: 10.12.94) Groesse : 164 Bytes -------------------------------------- Actually, the 1200XL keyboard was made by Mitsumi . Most 800 keyboards were made by Stackpole & HiTech. A few toward the end were also Mitsumi. -Bry Empfaenger : /comp/sys/atari/8bit, /comp/sys/cbm, /alt/folklore/computers Absender : BRYEDEWAARD*news.delphi.com (BRYEDEWAARD*DELPHI.COM) Betreff : Re: Why did Commodore beat Atari in the 8-bit market? Datum : Sa 03.12.94, 03:41 (erhalten: 10.12.94) Groesse : 134 Bytes -------------------------------------- I believe the maximum memory hit from video is only about 25% on the Atari, and then only when in the highest modes. -Bry Empfaenger : /comp/sys/atari/8bit Absender : heller*akh104.rh.psu.edu (Andrew K. Heller) Betreff : XEGS keyboard Datum : Fr 09.12.94, 20:24 (erhalten: 10.12.94) Groesse : 581 Bytes -------------------------------------- I think the XEGS keyboard is a 130xe keyboard... and in fact..inside.. you can actually press start/reset/ etc... from the external keyboard.. is this correct? -- Carts: 2600 103 5200 20 7800 20 (MINT) Lynx 5 Systems: 2600A 2 2600JR 1 Sears SVA2 1 5200 2 7800 2 Lynx 1 800 2 1200XL 1 600XL 1 800XL 7, 130XE 1 always lookin' for more. Oh.. and 1 Vectrex with 20 carts, including light pen. ELO listenin', Dr. Pepper, Kool-aid, and Red Devil drinkin', Atari lovin', cags-faq writin', fuji worshiping Ghoull-Man. heller*akh104.rh.psu.edu